Motor sparking at block
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  1. #1
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    Default Motor sparking at block

    Hello fellas, new to the site and in need of some help. To start I'm running a 2 pump, 3 dump, 8 batt setup. I have 3 noid to back @ 48v, and 4 noids to front at 96v. I know this topic has been talked about, but was unsure of the correct solution. Originally my setup worked fine, then I was practicing hopping the car and fired a motor. When I removed pump, you can see burnt mark at the base of the motor at the block. I replaced the entire pump assemble, and upgrade motor to a HD Presto hi. When I hit the switch, the new pump assemble (new motor, tank, block) still spark. The car still goes up, but a decent spark still persist. I just removed noid to bench test, but I'm feeling like that may not be my problem, or only problem. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

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  3. #2
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    Is the spark from the motor or solenoid?

  4. #3
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    On my Presto Hi it coming the motor. I'm currently replacing the solenoids because I found two bad ones, and I'm making sure all my grounds are good. Some ground point were painted, and not taken down to bare metal to ensure a good ground. Once that done, and batt are at full charge I will test again.

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    You should ground your motor!!! I had black magic put me a ground terminal on the case of my new motor. Ran a 0 guage cable off that to the pump mount bolt on the rack. Seems to help.

  6. #5
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    So for an update on my problem, I cleaned all grounds. One connector was coming apart, so I replaced it. I cleaned and made sure pump was mounted to bare metal, I replaced all the solenoids. Hooked everything back up, and all seemed to be working fine. After sitting for about 30 mins, I went to go take a drive. Brought back up and then brought front up, 2 mins later the solenoid started to spark and caught on fire. Fire was put out quickly, but the first solenoid was completely burnt up. Im running 4 batt 3 noids to rear, and 8 batt 4 noids to the front. Should I be running more noids to the front? Could I still have a ground starvation problem?

  7. #6
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    is everything grounded to the rack AND the rack grounded to the frame?

  8. #7
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    Everything is grounded, double checked and cleaned every point. Rack is grounded to the frame. I'm at a loss right now, and pissed. I'm ready to just remove everything and start over

  9. #8
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    Am I the only one thinking that 8 batteries to one pump is the problem??? Unless you have 2 banks going to the front with 4 on each, or have a mix of battery wire of series and parallel, 96V is too much for one pump. 72V is the max they can handle without mixing up wiring.

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    I'm thinking of changing it up, and just running 4 batt to front and 4 batt to rear.

  11. #10
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    It sounds like you have a total of 12 batteries, you could run 5 to the rear and 5 to the front safely with no problems, be sure to use 4 Solenoids for each pump. You could also run 6 and 6 but you will start to run the risk of having the same issues you're having now.

    Here is a link to my YouTube channel on diagrams, find the ones that show your setup. Subscribe and anytime you have questions, just ask in the comments and I'll respond.

    https://youtu.be/ccCuT5jpmDI

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    Quote Originally Posted by Russellhydros View Post
    Am I the only one thinking that 8 batteries to one pump is the problem??? Unless you have 2 banks going to the front with 4 on each, or have a mix of battery wire of series and parallel, 96V is too much for one pump. 72V is the max they can handle without mixing up wiring.
    ???? 8 batteries to 1 pump is fine. 12volts is technically what the motors and solenoids are manufactured for. What do you mean by "mixing up wiring"?

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russellhydros View Post
    It sounds like you have a total of 12 batteries, you could run 5 to the rear and 5 to the front safely with no problems, be sure to use 4 Solenoids for each pump. You could also run 6 and 6 but you will start to run the risk of having the same issues you're having now.

    Here is a link to my YouTube channel on diagrams, find the ones that show your setup. Subscribe and anytime you have questions, just ask in the comments and I'll respond.

    https://youtu.be/ccCuT5jpmDI
    Why would you use 4 solenoids on 5 batteries when you can run 3 on 6 batteries all day. Hell, I've run 8 on 3 noids with no issues. Only way I'd use 4 is with 1 acting a a switch for the bank of 3.

    What do your setups consist of?

  14. #13
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    Unless you have some weak backyard batteries, running 8 batteries to one pump is dangerous. Let's assume you have sufficient batteries with 900-1000 CCA, then 6 is the max you should be running in series. Now let's assume your running cheap low end batteries with 650 CCA, yeah you probably could run a 7th battery but still not a good idea. Here are the facts you can argue about all day long, but they are facts, the Solenoids are designed to run off of 12v each, we as hydraulic guys don't take this literal, we use 3 as a good rule on most of our setups, however to be safe, when I reach 5 batteries, I go with 4 Solenoids. 6 batteries and still 4 Solenoids. Fact 2, the motors arent suppose to handle more than 72 volts. Now, what I meant by switching up the wiring, running 6 batteries in series and 2 in parallel which will keep your volts at 72 but raise your amps to max out what a pump can take. If you want to push the limits to your setup by running 8 batteries, have fun, as for this guys problem, it is obviously too much power.

  15. #14
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    Running 8 950cca batteries since brand new on 3 solenoids with no problems. Not my first car running 8 to the nose either. Running parallel is great for more switch time but it's not going to get the car hopping higher. Proper sized welding wire, good ground, accumax noids, carling switches, and breaking in and prepping motors = 8 batteries all day.

    Smoove, did you add a ground to the motor case? Using new accumax solenoids? What size cable are you running and is it all the same size and copper?

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    So I went ahead and switched up the wiring of the batt's, I just went with 2 banks of 4 batts to each pump. 3 new noids, cleaned all gnd contact points, and car is fine. To answer a few of you guys questions. @ Russellhydros- 8 total batts, not 12. All batts are about 1yr old and are 950 CCA. @Cashmoneyspeed- Didnt add a gnd wire to motor case, cleaned the paint of rack which is part of batt rack and welded to the frame of car thru truck.

  17. #16
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    OK so now car is working fine, and now I have 2 extra pumps (one has bad motor). I'm thinking about building 1 good pump for the two, and adding that pump to setup which will give me a 3 pump setup. My question would you suggest staying with 8 batts, or adding 4 more to bring total batts to 12. Running 4 to each pump, or stay with the 8 and use 2 batts from each bank?

  18. #17
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    Here is several options. It really depends on where the third pump is going and what your purpose is. You don't have to add 4 batteries if the pump is intended for the rear to help with 3 wheel. If it is going to the front, you still do have to, but if you're plan is to hop it, might be a good idea. Need to know where that pump is going first before answering.3pump 8 batt hopper 2 less voltage to rear pump.jpg3pump 8 batt.jpg3pump 9 batt hopper 2 less voltage to rear pump.jpg3pump 9 batt option2.jpg3pump 10 batt hopper 2 less voltage to rear pump.jpg3pump 10 batt hopperhigh volt to rear.jpg3pump 10 batt.jpg3pump 12 batt hopperhigh volt to rear.jpg3pump 12 batt option 2.jpg
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  19. #18
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    My intentions were to that add another pump for the back, so I can have CC in the rear and one pump to both fronts. Before I do that I have to switch up some of my hoses, currently their are two individual hoses coming from Y-block. But Y-block is located at the pump, which is not how I like it. I am going to run a single hose from pump to engine bay, then install the Y-block and shorter hoses to each cylinder.

  20. #19
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    Can I ask why you're using the Y block at all? Using a y block restricts your fluid flow by splitting it in two, I'm assuming you're using 3/8 lines to your cylinder which is small to begin with, cutting that in half will drastically affect your hopping ability. Your best option is to remove the y block completely. If you only have one dump, add a second dump and fittings. If your block will allow you to use half inch fitting, use 1/2 fitting from the block to your dumps and 3/8 after your dumps on the way to your cylinders. This will allow for better flow. As for your battery setup, you could stick with what you have with just the 8 batteries, 4 to the front, 4 to the back running both pumps off of the 4 batteries in series 48V, yes the power would be split when you're lifting both back pumps but since you're not hopping the rear it won't matter much, but if you want more power you could add 2 batts and run 3 and 3 to the rear, or add 4 and run 4 to all banks. Personally I would probably just add 1 battery and run 5 batteries to the front and 4 to the rear but it also depends on how your lining up your batteries in the back. What kind of car is this going in?

  21. #20
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    Russell, most likely he's got 1 dump to the front with y-block in the trunk due to it being set up to hop. This is very common and sometimes the more responsive way to set it up. Especially when running adex/adel valves.
    Changing over to 1/2" plumbing will provide more volume but not necessarily better "flow". Depends on gear size and if he's planning on keeping the front at 48v. Adding a battery or two sounds easy enough but if he has to redo the rack, it would be my last resort to redo a trunk for a small bit more play time.

    Post up your current setups when you get a chance. I'm curious to see what you're working with.

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