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Discussion Starter #1
days ago someone was selling a Camaro in the paper with hydro/air in the description. i thought they just didn't know what they were talking about so i never checked up on it. Drastic Auto Club has a Civic with a hydro/air setup on a Civic...i'm not sure if the Civic is setup like the Camaro...here's a pic of the Civic setup..how does this work?





Last edited by caliswangin916 at Nov 13 2003, 11:57 PM
 

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Originally posted by caliswangin916@Nov 13 2003, 11:56 PM
days ago someone was selling a Camaro in the paper with hydro/air in the description. i thought they just didn't know what they were talking about so i never checked up on it. Drastic Auto Club has a Civic with a hydro/air setup on a Civic...i'm not sure if the Civic is setup like the Camaro...here's a pic of the Civic setup..how does this work?

What am I seeing here?... is he using airbags for accumulators? (liquid coils, now air coils)
 

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It's the same as some of the "coil spring set-ups" I remember seeing about 15 years ago. I aso remember seing set-ups that used coils and regular shocks mounted in the trunk to provide cushion. And if this is like the set-ups I remember from back then, yes, the air bags are basically acting as accumulators... from what I can tell from the picture.
 

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actually the air bags are taking the place of both the pumps and the springs.

It is a sealed system, as the bag compresses the hydraulic fluid is pushed from the cylinders mounted at each corner, to the cylinders in the trunk

As the air bags are inflated, it forces the fluid from the cylinders in the trunk to the cylinders mounted on each wheel.

Obviously as the wheel hits a bump, it pushes the wheel cylinder, to the trunk cylinder, pushin on the bag

The lame thing about this set up(pictured) is there are only 2 bags for the 4 cylinders, he should have used 4 bags, one for each corner.

t
 

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Originally posted by hydrodummy@Nov 14 2003, 09:28 AM
actually the air bags are taking the place of both the pumps and the springs.

It is a sealed system, as the bag compresses the hydraulic fluid is pushed from the cylinders mounted at each corner, to the cylinders in the trunk

As the air bags are inflated, it forces the fluid from the cylinders in the trunk to the cylinders mounted on each wheel.

Obviously as the wheel hits a bump, it pushes the wheel cylinder, to the trunk cylinder, pushin on the bag

The lame thing about this set up(pictured) is there are only 2 bags for the 4 cylinders, he should have used 4 bags, one for each corner.

t
I was thinking that too since I couldn't see any pumps and it's a Civic. I though against it though 'cause I figured that would be a really slow system if we're looking at all of the system components in that pic. 'Cause I don't even see a tank. But there seems to be an airline going forward so I'm gonna assume there's one up there somewhere.
 

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if thats the way the system works it looks like a giant waste of money and space.....why the fuck would someone want something like that?
 

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"The lame thing about this set up(pictured) is there are only 2 bags for the 4 cylinders, he should have used 4 bags, one for each corner."

I see that there are 2 cylinders per bag there, presuming one to each corner. If there were pivots on the end of each shaft (where they're attached to the bag), I'd say it may be possible to have (semi) individual wheel suspension, ie tilts the top mount of the bag, I bit like a live rear axel, in a way.

If anyone understands me, well done, and you can explain it better for everyone else.
 

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Originally posted by enough_talkin@Nov 14 2003, 10:43 AM
if thats the way the system works it looks like a giant waste of money and space.....why the fuck would someone want something like that?
Hold on now, don't be shittin' on this guy's system. All of this shit we're doing can be thought of as a "waste of money and space" in that case. Whoever it is just wanted to try something different. I applaud people like that.
 

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Originally posted by lowmerc@Nov 14 2003, 10:54 AM
"The lame thing about this set up(pictured) is there are only 2 bags for the 4 cylinders, he should have used 4 bags, one for each corner."

I see that there are 2 cylinders per bag there, presuming one to each corner. If there were pivots on the end of each shaft (where they're attached to the bag), I'd say it may be possible to have (semi) individual wheel suspension, ie tilts the top mount of the bag, I bit like a live rear axel, in a way.

If anyone understands me, well done, and you can explain it better for everyone else.
That's why I wanted to think of it as a "hydraulic system with bags as accumulators." Cause if it's a "bag system with hydraulic cylinders", unless there's a tank back there that I'm not seeing, it's only front/back and seems like it would be really slow.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Wouldn't this be limiting because only so much fluid can be pushed to the cylinders on each corner because of the limited amount that is stored in the hoses to the corner cylinders and the amount in the trunk cylinders?? Because in a pump setup there is always(?) reserve fluid in the tank where this hydro/air has no source of reserve fluid that can be used to build up a higher psi?

Technically how much fluid can be compressed into a cylinder with with a non pressurized volume capacity of say 4 ounces using a 48volt set up and a number 6 pumphead?

I can only see two advantages to this
1. smoother ride maybe even better than a high end luxury???
2. a lot less oil in the trunk when maintenance or repair is
needed

But I am thinking this setup would be very slow because it seems to be using air to push fluid rather than a hydraulic setup that uses fluid to push fluid(more density)...and the limitied supply of fluid in the cylinders comes back into play(psi build up). Anyone disagree or see advantages/disadvantages in other ways?
 

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Originally posted by enough_talkin@Nov 14 2003, 10:43 AM
if thats the way the system works it looks like a giant waste of money and space.....why the fuck would someone want something like that?
truly it kinda is a waste, but that is his decision. Sure it helps to ride better but it is ugly, waste of space, and just stupid. There was a neon done like that many years ago I saw at Pigeon Forge, clean, but stupid.

When I installed the "homemade accumulators" in the trunk of that 626, they were for the same purpose, but I used 4 accums also in the system for the ride. The homemades were controlled by on-off valves so they were not used at all, but they were fully functional. Waste of money cause they weren't used 100% of the time-yes, but it sure damn looked good and was really never used in street setups before 2000(not in america anyway). They were usually used in hoppers back in the day :cool:
 

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The cylinders are a closed system. One in the trunk that has a hose going directly to the one on the suspension. Fluid doesnt compress so if one pushes in the other must push out. So the bags are doing everything and the cylinders just transfer that too the suspesion.
 

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Originally posted by caliswangin916@Nov 14 2003, 03:56 AM
days ago someone was selling a Camaro in the paper with hydro/air in the description. i thought they just didn't know what they were talking about so i never checked up on it. Drastic Auto Club has a Civic with a hydro/air setup on a Civic...i'm not sure if the Civic is setup like the Camaro...here's a pic of the Civic setup..how does this work?

stupid thing------what happens if his o-rings start leaking? Can you say fucking screwed :biggrin:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I'm seeing a bag pushing a solid stroke then pushing fluid (in the hoses) to push the corner strokes to lift...

even if the bag were capable of working as fast as a #6 at 48volts, it must still be slowed down due to not going directly to the lifting cylinder because it has to push a stroke then push the fluid, then the lifting cylinder.
stated earlier.... i may be wrong about the density part because the bag is pushing a solidly dense stroke and not as i thought earlier( that it was air pushing fluid)
i would think that this setup would work out fairly well as long as the bag can inflate as fast as say a #6 at 48volts??? which is unlikely without other gas assistance??? Or is speed just not an issue for this person?
 

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Originally posted by caliswangin916@Nov 14 2003, 02:11 PM
Maybe this is a start that can bridge the Juice and Bag haters like the Seinfeld vanilla and chocolate cookie :biggrin:
No, it was the "Black and White" cookie. :)

(Greatest fuckin' show ever. :cheesy: )
 

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damn, this is weird, because me and a co-worker were talking about an air/hydraulic system..

this seems pretty cool to me, and if theres a big enough tank, it should be kinda fast, until the air runs out..

(kinda like my ride)

my only concern is the pressure/area/force thing...

without getting out my calculator, i wonder how many psi it takes in the bag to lift the car all the way up?
 

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This settup looks like it could be kinda fast. Usually, you would run one stroke per bag. What looks like to me is this guy is using two strokes in the trunk which are then probly hooked up to one cylinder at the wheel. If you take another look. There are holes in that rack for two more sets of bags/cylinders. This pics seems to have been taken while the settup was under construction. That would also explain why there is no tank (yet). Not bad. :biggrin:
 

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Originally posted by [email protected]+Nov 14 2003, 02:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ([email protected] @ Nov 14 2003, 02:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--caliswangin916@Nov 14 2003, 03:56 AM
days ago someone was selling a Camaro in the paper with hydro/air in the description. i thought they just didn't know what they were talking about so i never checked up on it. Drastic Auto Club has a Civic with a hydro/air setup on a Civic...i'm not sure if the Civic is setup like the Camaro...here's a pic of the Civic setup..how does this work?

stupid thing------what happens if his o-rings start leaking? Can you say fucking screwed :biggrin:[/b][/quote]
It should be fine. O-rings really only go bad cuz the cyinders are nder alot of sideways pressure. This make s the inner shaft bend and scrape against the inner wall of the casing. Then the O-ring gets chewed up on the damaged walls. Hes using good cylinders too so he should be fine. But, yeah that would suck. Has got to be a bitch to bleed the lines too
 

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WE HAVE DESIGNED A AIR OVER OIL SET-UP.......WITH SOME VERY SURPRISING #'S........IF GOLO WOULD LET IT HOP,YOU WOULD SEE A 6' PANCAKE!!!!!!!!BUT THEY FUCK THAT UP....NO COMPRESSED GAS BOTTLES FOR COMP.... AND WE WERE USEING THE WORST
GAS.....LIQUID HELIUM @ 6000 PSI......I'LL GUESS IT'LL WAIT TILL NEXT YEAR :angry:
 
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