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I was just sittin here thinking about all the recent topics on motors. Has anyone ever tried to design and build a gear reduction box? You could make a jackshaft style setup with gears inside it to increase torque and rpm. For example if you used a 30 tooth sprocket on the motor side and a 15 tooth sprocket on the block/ pumphead side the pumphead would effectivly spin 2x as fast as the motor with less effort. So if dc motors rpms directly relate to voltage (for example not accurate rpm data) if true 48 volts=5400rpm and 96 volts=10800 rpm you could now achieve minus drag from bearings and chain in reduction box 10800 rpm from 48 volts with less wear/ strain on motor.

Just brainstorming and i think it will work

Let me know what you think
 

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It was done, 10-15 years ago . I remember seeing a few adds in LRM for it but never seen any in person. It basically adapted a Nipendenzo style starter motor to fit a pump block. I'm assuming it didn't work as it never took off.
 

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Originally posted by OUTHOPU@Jan 24 2010, 08:48 AM~16392808
It was done, 10-15 years ago . I remember seeing a few adds in LRM for it but never seen any in person. It basically adapted a Nipendenzo style starter motor to fit a pump block. I'm assuming it didn't work as it never took off.
X2......IN THEORY, SEEMED LIKE A GREAT IDEA THOUGH
 

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Originally posted by MUFASA@Jan 24 2010, 10:52 AM~16392829
X2......IN THEORY, SEEMED LIKE A GREAT IDEA THOUGH
You ever see them in person? All I ever saw was pics.
 

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Originally posted by OUTHOPU@Jan 24 2010, 11:48 AM~16392808
It was done, 10-15 years ago . I remember seeing a few adds in LRM for it but never seen any in person. It basically adapted a Nipendenzo style starter motor to fit a pump block. I'm assuming it didn't work as it never took off.
the hopping community back then were stubborn and backwords, they wouldn't let those motors in the pits.
 

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Originally posted by OUTHOPU@Jan 24 2010, 08:59 AM~16392863
You ever see them in person? All I ever saw was pics.
Same here.....if they are out there, id love to get my hands on one..
 

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Originally posted by Airborne@Jan 24 2010, 10:00 AM~16392870
the hopping community back then were stubborn and backwords, they wouldn't let those motors in the pits.

what do you mean "back then"?



How would it spin twice as fast as the motor with less effort? evertime you'd add to the tooth count on the driven gear, or reduce the number of teeth on the idler side, you going to need MORE power to move it. Or am I looking at what your proposing backwards... I get confused easy
 

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Originally posted by AndrewH@Jan 24 2010, 12:20 PM~16393409
what do you mean "back then"?
How would it spin twice as fast as the motor with less effort? evertime you'd add to the tooth count on the driven gear, or reduce the number of teeth on the idler side, you going to need MORE power to move it. Or am I looking at what your proposing backwards...  I get confused easy
Ya I think your looking at it backwards. It works on the same principal that a manual gearbox does in a car. You have a fixed output drive and changing the final drive gear alters performance.
 

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Originally posted by AndrewH@Jan 24 2010, 01:20 PM~16393409
what do you mean "back then"?
How would it spin twice as fast as the motor with less effort? evertime you'd add to the tooth count on the driven gear, or reduce the number of teeth on the idler side, you going to need MORE power to move it. Or am I looking at what your proposing backwards...  I get confused easy
Back in the 90's when I first saw them. The motors would eat the spline keys on cheaper pumps, that was the excuse the "OG" ass holes used to keep them out of the pit.

And OUTHOPU said it. Just like a gear reduction starter on a high compression engine. A regular starter lacked the torque so someone came up with the "gear reduction" type. They put out more torque (twisting force) at the same voltage.
 

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"Old School DJz"
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Originally posted by AndrewH@Jan 24 2010, 11:20 AM~16393409
what do you mean "back then"?
How would it spin twice as fast as the motor with less effort? evertime you'd add to the tooth count on the driven gear, or reduce the number of teeth on the idler side, you going to need MORE power to move it. Or am I looking at what your proposing backwards... I get confused easy
6th or 7th one from the top of the page... :cool:
 

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ok so more torque, but the gear spins slowly. Are we proposing using gears with wider teeth, get the flow of a 13 with the power requirments of a #7? I could see that, maybe...
 

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Originally posted by AndrewH@Jan 24 2010, 02:38 PM~16394058
ok so more torque, but the gear spins slowly.  Are we proposing using gears with wider teeth, get the flow of a 13 with the power requirments of a #7? I could see that, maybe...
the motor will have a "gear" spinning a gear with less teeth. The bigger one will spin at a normal RPM and will in turn spin the smaller gear faster. The smaller gear is what spins the pump. The smallest one spins faster, spinning the gears in the pump faster all the while not using any extra power.

Just like a motorcycle or bicycle or rear end on a car. Gear ratio is pretty simple.
 

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Originally posted by Ked O.P.@Jan 24 2010, 01:32 PM~16394003
6th or 7th one from the top of the page...  :cool:
Yes along those lines. I believe they had a custom "nose" section that allowed them to bolt up to a pump block.

Now I'm wishing I didn't throw all my old LRM collection away. Makes me want to find the pics.
 

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I thought about this, but I think I came to the conclusion that it wouldn't really work. Here's why.

If you gear the motor to spin faster, the pumphead will spin slower, You will have to compensate the pumphead slower speed by having a pumphead with more gpm.

If you gear the motor to spin slower, the pumphead will spin faster, you will have to have a motor with a lot more torque to compensate for the extra strain/load on the motor.

Picture riding a mountain bike with 21 speeds up and down a hill. You compensate the work load on your legs by changing gears.

This would be very effective If we had ONLY one pumphead/motor combo to work with. Similar to a cars engine and final drive. The final drive being the pumphead.

In theory I don't think it will be worth the effort, but there's only one way to find out.
 

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Originally posted by chairmnofthboard@Jan 24 2010, 01:48 PM~16394627
I thought about this, but I think I came to the conclusion that it wouldn't really work. Here's why.

If you gear the motor to spin faster, the pumphead will spin slower, You will have to compensate the pumphead slower speed by having a pumphead with more gpm.

If you gear the motor to spin slower, the pumphead will spin faster, you will have to have a motor with a lot more torque to compensate for the extra strain/load on the motor.

Picture riding a mountain bike with 21 speeds up and down a hill. You compensate the work load on your legs by changing gears.

This would be very effective If we had ONLY one pumphead/motor combo to work with. Similar to a cars engine and final drive. The final drive being the pumphead.

In theory I don't think it will be worth the effort, but there's only one way to find out.
even if that one combo was going to the nose?
:confused: :cool: :biggrin:
 

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Originally posted by chairmnofthboard@Jan 24 2010, 12:48 PM~16394627
I thought about this, but I think I came to the conclusion that it wouldn't really work. Here's why.

If you gear the motor to spin faster, the pumphead will spin slower, You will have to compensate the pumphead slower speed by having a pumphead with more gpm.

If you gear the motor to spin slower, the pumphead will spin faster, you will have to have a motor with a lot more torque to compensate for the extra strain/load on the motor.

Picture riding a mountain bike with 21 speeds up and down a hill. You compensate the work load on your legs by changing gears.

This would be very effective If we had ONLY one pumphead/motor combo to work with. Similar to a cars engine and final drive. The final drive being the pumphead.

In theory I don't think it will be worth the effort, but there's only one way to find out.
:thumbsup:
 

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Originally posted by Ked O.P.@Jan 24 2010, 01:38 PM~16394982
even if that one combo was going to the nose?
:confused:   :cool:  :biggrin:

What I mean is if we only had a gold motor and #5 pumphead to work with. If that was the case we could speed up the gear and causing it to perform like a #8 gear with the same load/strain as a #8. (in theory)


Try it, with the CNC machines now a days, it's pretty easy to try. :cool:
 

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Originally posted by Airborne@Jan 24 2010, 12:55 PM~16394183
the motor will have a "gear" spinning a gear with less teeth. The bigger one will spin at a normal RPM and will in turn spin the smaller gear faster. The smaller gear is what spins the pump. The smallest one spins faster, spinning the gears in the pump faster all the while not using any extra power.

Just like a motorcycle or bicycle or rear end on a car. Gear ratio is pretty simple.

Yeah, I know its simple, thatds why I dont get why anyone thinks it would work.

You can only make the gear shaft spin faster or slower than the motor shaft. to make it spin faster, will bogg the motor.

Have you ever tried to get the holeshot on a dirtbike starting in 4th gear? oh and by the way, you cant rev it up before letting the cluth go..

the way it sounds, people are saying you would be to the first turn in no time flat...
 

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Originally posted by AndrewH@Jan 24 2010, 03:42 PM~16395925
Yeah, I know its simple, thatds why I dont get why anyone thinks it would work.
Have you ever tried to get the holeshot on a dirtbike starting in 4th gear? oh and by the way, you cant rev it up before letting the cluth go..
No, but I have launched in 2nd gear. :biggrin:
 
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